The Mix Tape: Ep. 9 — Laying The Groundwork For Your Career Path

Unison:

Welcome to the Mix Tape.

Valerie McCandlish:

I’m Valerie.

Natalie Taylor:

And I’m Natalie. And today it’s a beautiful, sunny day in Columbus, Ohio. And it’s a fun week, because Valerie got a promotion. Woo hoo.

Valerie McCandlish:

Thank you.

Natalie Taylor:

So it’s very exciting. Val, tell us a little bit about your new role.

Valerie McCandlish:

I am super excited. I just was promoted to the training and engagement lead here at Mix. So, I will move from recruiting for our clients and working on positions externally to focusing on our internal talent, how we can continue to develop and grow at all stages of our teammates, and career levels, and just make this a great place for people to be long term, and look at opportunities to help us make a bigger impact on the life sciences space.

Natalie Taylor:

I love that.

Valerie McCandlish:

So, I’m so excited.

Natalie Taylor:

Yay, I’m excited for you. I think it’s well deserved. Valerie is very involved in a lot of aspects of Mix and I can’t think of a better person to lead that charge for us.

Valerie McCandlish:

Oh my gosh.

Natalie Taylor:

So, I think it’s exciting for everyone. And that’s a great lead in to our episode today, where Mix Talent’s, Glenna Halligan will be talking with Jeannie Lloyds of Veritas about career growth, and Jeannie’s advice on how to grow your career, and different steps to take, to get to where you want to be.

Valerie McCandlish:

Yeah. When I’m talking with candidates, I think growth opportunity is often one of the key factors that they’re looking for as part of a job opportunity. And that growth means something different to everybody. But I’m really excited about today’s episode because this is all about career growth and taking steps to reach the goals that you have on where you want to be long term. And it’s really cool to get an inside look at the trajectory of a sales leader. And from Jeannie’s point of view, from how she made these big decisions on her life, on different steps that would get her to where she is now.

Natalie Taylor:

Yeah, Val. Jeannie has a standout record of achievement in creating and leading the vision, execution, and strategic partnerships that allow for commercial success within both startup and established environments. She is an inspiring leader who creates cultures, where teams are motivated to learn, stretch their performance, and positively impact patient care. So, with that, let’s hear from Jeannie and Glenna.

Glenna Halligan:

Hello everyone. My name is Glenna Halligan, and I am a senior recruiting lead here at Mix talent. And I am joined by Jeannie Lloyds, who is the vice president of Sales for the US commercial team out of Veritas Pharma. So, hi Jeannie.

Jeannie Lloyds:

Hello, Glenna.

Glenna Halligan:

Hi.

Jeannie Lloyds:

Thanks for having me today.

Glenna Halligan:

Of course, thank you. Welcome to the Mix Tape. Very excited to have you, and very eager to chat with you today. And while I’ve had the pleasure of working with you in the past, I do want to take this opportunity today to give our listeners some insight into your career path. So, with that, the choices you’ve made, why you made them, and how those got you to where you are today. So, first question of mine really would be, could you talk us through your career path, and with that from your first experience of hiring a team of direct reports to now where you are building out an entire commercial sales force, what are the biggest lessons you’ve learned along the way?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Yeah, no, those are really good questions. Well, I’ve been in the business in the life sciences business, pharmaceutical industry for over 20 years, and we will leave it at that. I started out with a big, pharmaceutical company, spent about 13 years there, and really worked my way up from sales, to training, to first line management. I spent time at our corporate headquarters, as well as then moving into second line leadership as well. From there, I continued my career onto more of a mid-sized organization. I’ve also done startup organizations, and most currently, as you outlined, I am with a startup organization here in the US that is part of a larger organization based out of Germany.

Jeannie Lloyds:

What are the lessons that I’ve learned through that process in building teams? Well, if I think back to when I was a brand new first line leader in the field, I walked into a team that was established. So, I didn’t get to build my team at that point, but it was an interesting time, because we had acquired another organization. And so, we were in the process of trying to blend two cultures together. And so, I had a couple unique challenges. I had, A, the obvious challenge of just being a brand new leader and trying to figure out how to do that. What does that look like? How do I do it well? As well as, bringing two sets of groups of people together with different philosophies, different types of cultures that they came from. And then, I had very different tenured individuals on my team. I also had the unique challenge of interviewing against a member of the team that then I ended up managing. So, I’ve progressed from there, obviously, and done a lot of different things in building out teams.

Jeannie Lloyds:

But I think that the one common thread that … I think there’s a couple common threads that I would say really stand out. Number one, you just have to remember and find the confidence that you are there for a reason, and that you bring skill sets to the team that you are going to be able to help them grow and become stronger and better. Ultimately you’re never going to be the expert in everything, and you don’t want to be. To be an effective leader, you want to build a team that has individuals that have strengths across the board, that may have expertise, whether it be analytically, clinically, whether it be in just being a great teammate and helping people feel better about what they’re doing. But you want to be able to create a team of complimentary strengths. And if you find that you’re able to do that, and you’re able to grow and learn from them, just as much as you’re able to provide guidance to them, I think that it ends up fostering a culture that really propels people to want to be successful.

Glenna Halligan:

Absolutely. And to go even deeper into that, when you mentioned how you were a part of an organization that had just acquired another. So, as we all know, the pharma, and life sciences industry changes daily. So, from your perspective, how do you know really which company is worth the investment to take on a task of building out their sales force or joining them at the right level? How do you weigh out those pros and cons to make a move?

Jeannie Lloyds:

You know, I think it’s a really good a question. And fortunately, the industry … There’s many options available to people that are interested in this industry and want to have a successful career path. But I think you have to start really figuring out what is most important to you at different points in your life. It may be that you want to be able to be in a large organization where you really get the in infrastructure that’s already in place, that things are a little bit more plug and play. The pace and the urgency may not be quite as fast as it would be in a startup organization versus moving to a startup organization. It’s a very different environment. You’re going to walk into a situation where there is no path. You’re going to help figure it out. You’re going to be tapped into wearing hats that you probably didn’t sign up for that are probably going to stretch you out of your comfort zone.

Jeannie Lloyds:

And so, I think it’s really important that you do some self-reflection as you’re going through the interview process, and really start to understand, what is this role really about, what is this culture about, and how does that fit with what’s going to make me thrive, and feel good about waking up every single day and being part of it? And I often say to people … There’s often a common thread that people say, “I want to be part of a startup. That’s what I want to do,” until all of a sudden you’re part of a startup. And it’s six months later, and you’re like, “Wait a minute. This is a lot more work and a lot harder than I ever, ever thought it was going to be.” And that’s okay. It’s not for everyone, but it’s the importance of, I think, being honest with yourself about what makes you most happy, and then trying to find an environment and a group of people that you surround yourself with that have those same common values and goals. And I think that’s the recipe for success.

Glenna Halligan:

Yes. And so, going into that with that startup culture and that mentality, and let’s say that itch to go from, let’s say, a bigger organization that has those, for lack of a better phrase, processes and procedures in place, and someone really wants to take that leap, for you, what gave you that itch, and what made you think like, “Yeah, I’m ready for a startup. I’m ready to hit the ground running and be a part of something as it’s growing?”

Jeannie Lloyds:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think for many people, colleagues of mine, I think you reach a point where in larger organizations your voice matters and you definitely have a seat at the table in trying to help impact the way that we’re going. But it comes to a point where you start to realize, “Hmm, if it was up to me completely, I may have done it slightly differently, or I may have included a different angle on it, or some different types of people into that mix,” whatever the case may be. But you find yourself in those situations where you start to feel something’s missing a little bit about your ability to impact the greater group, if you will, the greater outcome. And your magnitude of impact has somewhat been diminished because of the processes, or the system, or the way that it’s always been done at the organization that you’re at.

Jeannie Lloyds:

And so, that’s really what happened for me. I just felt that it was time to really be able to have a larger voice at the table. I wanted to help build something. I love building teams. I love building things from the ground up. I have found that that is something that makes me want to get up every single day and really pass on to others. And that’s hard to do. And so, I made that decision to do it, and I never looked back. I’ve stayed in the startup world ever since then. And it’s just something that I’m very passionate about.

Glenna Halligan:

Yes. And I can agree that I think you can just tell, even just by how you asking it and how have I’ve seen with your career trajectory, it’s definitely something that it’s a big task at hand, and I think you handle it very, very well. And so, with that, going into … So, you join an organization. You’re there to build out the commercial Salesforce, think through their reporting structure, and what roles are needed. How do you approach that? It’s a big task. So, how do you piece that together, look at it step by step, and ensure that the team is going to be successful in how you want it to be, and also, ensure that there’s that cross collaborative culture as well?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Yeah, no, those are really good questions. And thank you for the compliment. I think, in a startup world, let’s just stay focused on that, because I think that’s the most relevant experience that I have to share. It really comes down to being in lockstep with your key counterparts. And for me, that would be being with our head of Marketing, as well as our head of Medical Affairs. I actually, also run all of market access. We ended up rolling that into me as well, or else I would include them as well in this conversation.

Jeannie Lloyds:

And what do I mean by that? It’s because you really, as the head of commercial sales, you need to understand, what is it we’re trying to accomplish, what is our positioning statement, who is our target audience, what’s the segmentation of the market look like? Where are we ultimately going to win? Where does the demographic of the patients and the providers that we’re going to be targeting, really, where does that come together? And that becomes really, really important. Because as you start to understand collectively as a leadership team, what it is you’re trying to accomplish as one goal, and what are the milestones to get there, you now start to say, “Okay, in order to do that, this is what we’re going to need.” And you don’t do this alone. There are are wonderful vendors in the marketplace that we work with that help us do segmentation, that help us understand where the market opportunity lies, that help build out workforce size of a territory, how many accounts a particular person can call on.

Jeannie Lloyds:

But if you take a step back and just look at it from its infancy stages, you start at that beginning place of working together and understanding what the common goal, and then saying, “All right, to do that, we know we’re going to need this type of sales rep. We’re going to need this type of field access manager.” And you really start to build from there. The sizing of it, that’s all done with vendors that we work with. They help us do all the analytics to understand, do we need 50 sales reps? Do we need 100 sales reps? There’s mathematical aspects that go into all of that. But it’s more about the common vision of working together and how we’re trying to build something that I think is where you have to start.

Glenna Halligan:

Absolutely. And I think you mentioned it in your answer too, just about those expectations, as well as what type of talent you need to join your organization and to join your team. So, with that, and having a team of direct reports, and then that structure leading into that reporting structure, I should say, what do you lay out for your teams as far as communication expectations, or this is how we’re going to collaborate to ensure our success of either our products, or our company, our team as a whole? How do lay out those expectations and what are they?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think it’s really critical that your one voice, and I keep going back to this. But you have a commercial go to market model that you’ve created as an organization. But you then tie that along with your cultural value use and the behaviors that you want to have. And the way that you bring everyone together is by being grounded in what our market model is, how we’re going to do it, which is the culture. It’s the values. It’s the behaviors, which is just as important as the outcome, if not more important. And then, making sure that you’re incorporating the strategic imperatives of the product, and that you’re able to really understand, how are we going to execute upon them? And then, it’s all about consistent communication of the exact same three or four things. And it’s coming from Medical Affairs that way. It’s coming from commercial that way. It’s coming from Marketing that way. It’s coming from Sales Operations that way. It’s all about being united on the core elements of what it is you’re trying to accomplish, and not over-complicating it, and making sure that is consistent and repetitive, so that there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind what it is we’re trying to achieve, how we’re going to do it, and then how we’re going to do it as a team.

Glenna Halligan:

Yeah, excellent. No, and very true. And I feel like I’ve seen you lay that out before, and I’ve seen that consistency just in your work for sure. And so, going back to when I originally asked biggest lessons learned throughout your career path, leading you up to where you are now challenges. So, challenges you faced when building out your team, whether that be saying, “Here’s what we need and how we need it,” and getting pushback from whoever within the organization, what are those challenges and how have you overcome them, or adjusted and pivoted to make things work?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Well, so anyone that knows me say I play Whackamole all day long, right? So challenges are pretty much part of my world. Whackamole, in the best sense of the way you can possibly play the game. But again, that’s what goes back to making our jobs fun. You wake up every day and there’s new up opportunities in the startup world. But there there’s challenges that are always going to come up in the marketplace, whether it be with a customer, whether it be a roadblock, whether with acquisition of the product, whether it be with payer access, there’s always going to be the business aspects. And for me, that’s fine. Those are expected. Those are normal. They’re customary. It’s what we’re going to work through. And, and we’re going to brainstorm with one another to find the best practices of how to overcome them.

Jeannie Lloyds:

For me, the bigger challenges is when it comes to misalignment with our values and our behaviors. That is where it starts to get challenging. Because if you have a sales leader, for example, that’s leading it team of people … Again, I mentioned it earlier. I’m very big on what the magnitude of impact is. And the higher you go in an organization, the larger the magnitude that you’re going to have, and on both the outcomes, as well as how you’re going to get there. And so, I believe at our organization, we have core values and we have a set of behaviors under each of those. And I always say, “It should be on every single person’s desk.” Whenever you’re having a coaching conversation, you don’t need to overthink this. You just need to look at our values, and you need to look at our behaviors, and that’s your guide. Because it is probably one of the best written that I’ve ever seen. It was developed by our parent organization.

Jeannie Lloyds:

And it really comes down to if you get the people piece right, and you build teams that have the same passion, the same commitment to what we’re trying to achieve, we’re going to have all sorts of challenges, business wise. That’s the nature of the game. We wouldn’t have jobs if we didn’t have it, I always say, right?

Glenna Halligan:

Right.

Jeannie Lloyds:

But it really comes down to making sure the people piece is correct in that your leaders, most importantly, that are leading the teams underneath them, believe in the same values and behaviors that you do, and are able to communicate and effectively coach to that. When that doesn’t happen, as a senior leader, it’s important to take the appropriate steps to make sure that we can hopefully course correct that, and get everybody aligned quickly.

Glenna Halligan:

Yes. And so, you kind of … You touched on that as well, just even that advice piece that you give to your team, having your core values and those goals on your desk. So, for someone who is, let’s say, a very beginning of their leadership career, maybe in that regional role, or there’s someone listening right now, that is in that area role. And they want to get to where you are today, that VP level, and having that opportunity to either expand or build something, what is your advice to them, best steps to get there, what to look out for? What’s just a general theme, you think, of how to have someone get to where you are today?

Jeannie Lloyds:

I would say I would take a two-pronged approach to answer that question. The first is from an experience standpoint. I’m a very big believer in going sideways in your career to move up is the way to go. The more breadth of experience you can get, by doing time and Marketing, spending time in Operations, spending time in different functions, the more effective you’re going to be as a sales leader. And I know that the days are gone where it used to be, you had to go spend time at, “Corporate headquarters,” and do some … a year or two there, if you ever wanted to move into second line leadership. I don’t think that is as widespread as it used to be. But there is something to be said for that. There is some truly intrinsic value you get from seeing things from a different lens.

Jeannie Lloyds:

And that, to me, translates to the second pronged part of the answer, which is, you’ve been clearly very successful if you’re being you’re thinking about moving up, and you’re being developed for that, and you’re being considered for it. But just because you’ve been successful with what you’re doing, doesn’t translate that you’re going to be successful with those exact same skillset to the next role. So, the best advice I can give to people is you need to recognize where your strengths are, but more importantly, you need to recognize where some of your gaps are. And you need to be vulnerable enough to admit that, not be afraid to say no matter what role you’re in, “I’m not sure about that. Tell me more. I need to learn more to be able to answer that question. I need to be able to … “

Jeannie Lloyds:

I recently just told somebody, it made me remind me. I said, “The higher you go, the less you’ll know.” And they said, “What are you talking about?” And I said, “Well, because you no longer are the expert in any one thing.” The higher you go in an organization, your breadth of experience and what you have to manage becomes so much more vast. And you’re always … Your goal then is to hire people that are experts in those particular areas that you’re managing. So, you want them to know more than you on that. That’s why you’re hiring them, is to make that particular function the best that it can possibly be. You don’t have to be the expert in that. You just need to have the oversight and the leadership capability of identifying great talent, helping understand what the business needs are. And then, most importantly, bringing everyone together again, to that united collective mission of what we’re trying to accomplish together as one team, regardless of function.

Glenna Halligan:

Wonderful. Well, so, I have a couple other questions that are more of a tradition here on the Mix Tape that we like to ask every interviewer, interviewee, like yourself. So, first part of the question is, what is your favorite interview question to ask someone? And you don’t need to give up your best stuff, just because someone listening to this could interview with you one day. But what is your favorite interview question to ask?

Jeannie Lloyds:

I am not going to tell you that I have one exact favorite interview question, because I do interview for many, many different functions now, given that the different areas that I cover, and have responsibility for. But what I will say for interviewing, I think two things. Number one, invest the energy, and the time, and the commitment. It is the most important thing. And that’s so cliche, but it is so true. It is the most important thing we will do as leaders in any organization, and I would have to think that transcends industry, no matter what. So, oftentimes I will have leaders through the years that will do one phone interview, and they will come back and say, “This is the person that I want to hire.” To me, I said, “Well, you need to spend probably three or four more times with them, and then you need to get some of your counterparts and colleagues to talk to them.”

Jeannie Lloyds:

It’s really, really important to me to have it be a cross functional and collaborative interview process. Not so much just for us, because I want to make sure that we are having multiple people really get to see what this person can bring to our organization, but it’s equally as important for them to be interviewing us as a company. This is a two-way street. And if they’re only talking to you, and then they join the organization, they really have no idea what they just joined. All they know is you. And no one person shapes the culture, is a culture, or is a company. And so, that is really important.

Jeannie Lloyds:

The other piece of … Again, it’s not a question, but I guess the other thing that I look for is how much did you prepare? When someone comes to me, if they’re asking me basic questions they could have Googled, they could have found on our product website, if they are in the same therapeutic area, and they haven’t spoken to their current physicians about our product, and asked about our company, and asked about it, those are red flags to me. I want somebody that wants to build and be part of this fantastic organization with the same level of passion and commitment that I have. And that starts with the very first interview. And so, I’m constantly looking to evaluate really how much somebody has prepared and done their homework for the process.

Glenna Halligan:

Excellent. And that leads me into the next part of this question. And as you said, you want candidates to also interview you and make sure that where they’re interviewing for is where they’d like to be and stay there, ideally. So, do you have a certain question or maybe situation from a candidate, that they’ve asked you something and you’re like, “Oh, I never thought of that,” or that’s a really good question. Any common theme or question that has been given to you from a candidate that you can remember?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). You get all of the typical questions, which are wonderful, because they need to … They’re things that people need to know and understand. But for me, it’s the individuals that are really seeking to understand a little bit more about the why behind what we’re doing. Why am I interviewing with five different people on this team? This is so different. Why do I we do … We actually ask people to prepare a PowerPoint presentation, and do panel interviews, and allow them to present on fictitious business cases and things of that sort. The person who is curious, the person who is seeking to listen, and understand, and learn the deeper level, those are the individuals, in our case, because we’re not just sales people. We really are account managers with the product that we sell. And those are the individuals that you start to really see separate themselves very, very quickly with our customers, and provide that elevated level of account management that I think ultimately really helps us as an organization partner at a higher level.

Glenna Halligan:

All right. And then, last question. So, it’ll probably be the hardest one. It’s very serious. What is your favorite song?

Jeannie Lloyds:

Oh, you probably know that I would answer. So, I love Country music. So, I’m always that person. I love Country music, even old school Country music, you know? I love Carrie Underwood. I love when … I mean you name it. Anything Country, I will do. So, I don’t know that I have one favorite song I’m going to name out, but anything Country, I probably will be listening to it.

Glenna Halligan:

Well, Jeannie, that is all I have for you today. I know that I could probably talk to you for another hour just about all the things that you’ve done and accomplished up to this point. S, first, thank you for your time and for being on the Mix Tape. And just hopefully we can do this again, not too soon. Because I know our equipment set up was quite stressful today, but we made it. But thank you. This has been a blast and I’m excited for our listeners to get some great advice, and take that into their everyday, and to their career path as well.

Jeannie Lloyds:

Glenna, thank you so much for the opportunity, to you and to Mix Talent, and just a personal, thank you. You have been an incredible colleague and partner with me on multiple build-outs and building our organization, and you’ve been invaluable. So, I appreciate your partnership and the leadership that you’ve provided to us as well. So, thank you so much.

Natalie Taylor:

Thank you so much to Jeannie and Glenna for joining us today. And what awesome content. I love to hear people’s stories. And as always, we have a ton of takeaways.

Valerie McCandlish:

Of course.

Natalie Taylor:

So many impactful things that we’ve learned from Jeannie’s story. And I have about a million to say, but I’ll let you go first.

Valerie McCandlish:

Yeah, okay, okay. Well, I really loved what Jeannie said when she was talking about finding that confidence that you’re in your position for a reason, and that you’re bringing skill sets to the table that can help your team grow, and be better and stronger. And I also loved what she said from a leadership perspective that you want your team to have strengths all across the board, so that everybody has complimentary strengths, and that they can grow, and learn from each other, and that as a leader, you can also grow and learn from your team.

Natalie Taylor:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And to your point there, too, when she was discussing how you have to be honest about what makes you happy and surround yourself with that, the environment that you’re working in includes those teammates that you have. So, you’re going to learn so much from the people that you’re around. And if you enjoy those people too, you’re going to grow and become better from being in that environment. So, loved that point.

Natalie Taylor:

And I also would say that I also really like what Jeannie had to say about just the self-reflection in job searching and how important that is. Because when you’re looking for a job, especially if you find yourself in a position where you’re looking, because you have to, you might feel like you need to jump on any opportunities that are available to you, where you’re just looking to see what might be the next best step, but taking that time to reflect on what is important to you, what is going to make you feel like you’re thriving. And I love what she said. When you wake up, what’s going to make you most excited about what you’re doing? Having that honest reflection within yourself is going to make you most satisfied at the end of the day, when you’ve been seeking out a new role.

Valerie McCandlish:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And to that point, what Jeannie mentioned about going sideways in your career and how that’s so valuable. I think sometimes people are hesitant to do that, but I think I agree with her. There’s such great value in taking a sideways step, just to simply learn more, and see things from a different lens.

Natalie Taylor:

And you might grow more in the long run, because you took a lateral move to get additional perspective, than thinking you’re going to grow more by taking a step up, which is awesome advice. I love that so much.

Valerie McCandlish:

I did too.

Natalie Taylor:

Also, we’ve got some Country to add to the playlist, which we always talk about these songs, but we don’t talk often about the interview questions that are suggested or the favorite questions that people like to ask. And Jeannie gave us really good perspective and insight on things that are really valuable for that interview process, primarily that time that you invest to prepare for the interviews, and making sure that you’re going to be your best, most ready self for any stage of that conversation.

Natalie Taylor:

And on the reverse side, for her team too, taking the time to really get to know somebody is so pivotal. Because you’re not going to know them after just one conversation. So, having those additional discussions to really, truly know who they are, if you can bring on other people in, is going to be key. Because like she said, no one person is the singular culture of a company. It’s all made up by so many people.

Valerie McCandlish:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s a great point. I will say though, I am a country girl. So, I do like Jeannie’s song ideas.

Natalie Taylor:

Well, although she didn’t give a specific song, we’re going to throw in Shania Twain.

Valerie McCandlish:

We have to.

Natalie Taylor:

Because Val and I love Shania. So, we’re going to just throw one in there for Jeannie.

Valerie McCandlish:

She also mentioned Carrie Underwood as a favorite.

Natalie Taylor:

She did.

Valerie McCandlish:

So, we’ll find a good one from Carrie to add.

Natalie Taylor:

Yeah. Maybe one of each.

Valerie McCandlish:

Yeah.

Natalie Taylor:

Perfect.

Valerie McCandlish:

Yeah. Also Veritas just created their first LinkedIn page. So, if you want to give them a follow, I’m sure they would appreciate the support. And you can see what things are happening with Veritas Pharma. And we’re super excited. Next week is our last episode of the season.

Natalie Taylor:

It is. It’s our season finale.

Valerie McCandlish:

We’re rounding it out. So, with that, thanks for being in the mix. We’ll see you next week.